From - Wed Oct 17 13:27:51 2018 X-Account-Key: account1 X-UIDL: GmailId166832be205bc2bd X-Mozilla-Status: 1013 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Mozilla-Keys: Delivered-To: rob@landley.net Received: by 2002:ab0:208c:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id r12csp943206uak; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61EHdCAKXqiC2g4VHKVIL9kgr4swWkJtL9r6jorwOeN6QWG09j9dd8vuBA2AqOxUrypnI88 X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:16a4:: with SMTP id h33-v6mr26279849plh.3.1539798983448; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1539798983; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=E/rO76Tc0QzdNYVqa3mOrkhv21WxRyex6QvEcEw2ejkTXu3csi2hFDckupiXuJyBYi zXk7prvMPwpP229CvoeWCl723QCCDRFU0b1S/1Z7gD9I3gk/t6Vnp0U1pJ/oFhUaExlJ l2/HwgzW0eVnMQsJHKlzP8zNqJhOUFD+xI35NiRa9J1tH0BomncWOz7lTXlvaTED2Vdz ZHoFuv89BUKCkKGbfm4/O0KTNECK6rK1Db87M/rGCpUQpCQacVr29Lf3AWLQikDR62dB vCqIMCD3mvRcPPOo8VIN/xyQQ9J4OcBZ/jZ/zfxcbZc11fng8GNHlp33hCxuyKHUwbeT nOmw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=date:content-transfer-encoding:content-id:mime-version:comments :in-reply-to:reply-to:subject:to:from:message-id; bh=HpIGga40Wz3PXDOHP7PrAJqWHlOoA7xl5QvPk2tjJig=; b=JdV87WgS3oz/oa3fJSLdgU42ag+CKECK7OuT/DLvHfmwc2XtIMkx99zexEOi3S8DJp eaxLjf70GfCzWyq2fP11rUjemnTxW9R9efZEkZanvq36rbj7A+3/NmzvYPLwm8bihlke Gu8/FoVrE8ZANi252MKvejMVYsrYsyEJnO/vmiteVR5wD8mwHtYQnDXmwta6ZhH/ko+t uWXkHxOxs6y21CElD+40BvkIGGwFNd4FptjTA1T0rgw0PTUB/igdKvvwk1LotqbERJv5 nhNHc47pJ4EU2o7G4yAwBBVETXQYYc8rl259VCKiSuGy0hEKGKweVieTEAe8V+NrZzd2 UV7A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mckusick@mckusick.com designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mckusick@mckusick.com Return-Path: Received: from chez.mckusick.com (chez.mckusick.com. [70.36.157.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 129-v6si18906639pfd.201.2018.10.17.10.56.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mckusick@mckusick.com designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) client-ip=70.36.157.235; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mckusick@mckusick.com designates 70.36.157.235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mckusick@mckusick.com Received: from chez.mckusick.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by chez.mckusick.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w9HI1egQ039009 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckusick@mckusick.com) Message-Id: <201810171801.w9HI1egQ039009@chez.mckusick.com> From: Kirk McKusick To: Rob Landley Subject: Re: License naming question. X-URL: http://WWW.McKusick.COM/ Reply-To: Kirk McKusick In-reply-to: <9bf40da7-afb3-d3d6-3759-d1566c99aa20@landley.net> Comments: In-reply-to Rob Landley message dated "Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:57:10 -0500." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <39007.1539799300.1@chez.mckusick.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MISSING_MID, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on chez.mckusick.com > To: mckusick@mckusick.com > From: Rob Landley > Subject: License naming question. > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:57:10 -0500 > = > Hi, > = > We spoke at Ohio Linuxfest back in 2013 (you attended my Rise and > Fall of Copyleft talk, and then we talked in the hallway afterwards). > = > I _think_ I told you about my plans to try to promote public domain > equivalent licensing, a concept which has a wikipedia page now: > = > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain_equivalent_license > = > For toybox what I did was take the OpenBSD suggested template license > off their website and remove the half-sentence requiring people to > copy that specific license text into derived works, and the resulting > license made it past Google's lawyers! My toybox project has been > providing the command line for android since Marshmallow > (https://lwn.net/Articles/629362/) and we're making progress on > getting android to build under android, the Bionic libc maintainer > recently sent me a roadmap update about that: > = > https://github.com/landley/toybox/commit/92b359f00057 > = > I called the resulting license "Zero Clause BSD" (by analogy with > "Creative Commons Zero" and the existing 4 clause, 3 clause, and 2 > clause BSD licenses), and I even got SPDX approval for it in 2015 > (because Samsung asked me to shortly after Google merged it into > AOSP, they'd been adding it aftermarket before then and having an > SPDX identifier for the license simplified their internal bureaucracy). > = > Then a couple months after SPDX approved it, somebody _else_ submitted > the same license to Eric Raymond's old Open Source Initiative using > "Free" in the name, as in Free Software Foundation. (A sadly loaded > term these days.) > = > I hadn't known they were still in the license approval business > (they stopped approving new licenses in... 2012? And I remember > them explicitly _rejecting_ CC0 saying public domain isn't a license, > which their FAQ still talks about at > https://opensource.org/faq#public-domain). But they approved the > toybox license under a different name, then asked SPDX to retroactively > change their name for it. (SPDX didn't, but OSI refused to admit > it made a mistake, even though they said they had a policy to keep > the names in sync. They hadn't done their homework.) > = > Now every time the license is considered for a new use, the confusion > OSI caused tends to derail things: > = > https://github.com/david-a-wheeler/spdx-tutorial/issues/1 > = > When github itself was considering adding 0BSD to its license > pulldown (which would have been a big win), I was asked what I > thought of the naming confusion, and I wrote two long things on my > rationale with lots of links to earlier stuff, which you can read > here if you'd like: > = > https://github.com/github/choosealicense.com/issues/464 > = > Anyway, I recently decided to ask OSI to admit they made a mistake > and change their name for the license to match what SPDX did, and > there was unanimous approval... > = > http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-review_lists.opensource.or= g/2018-September/003519.html > = > Until the same guy who was objecting last time showed up to continue > to object. He ignord the "who used it first" axis, and said he > wanted to know which name was used more today, and then when he > lost that argument he said he objects to calling something a BSD > license that isn't using Berkeley's original wording. > = > My question is: do you object to the name "Zero Clause BSD" for a > public domain equivalent license that's the OpenBSD suggested > template license with half a sentence removed? > = > If you want to stay out of this, I understand. I'm pretty sure I > asked you this in 2013 before I started pushing the name, and > wouldn't have if you'd objected then, but that was long ago and the > water under the bridge is dead... > = > Thanks for your time, sorry that took so long to explain. (And even > longer if you read the big long github choosealicense thread. :) > = > Rob Thanks for the through explanation of the situation. I have no objections to the name "Zero Clause BSD" for your license. I hope that you are successful in getting OSI to change their name for the license to match what SPDX did. Kirk McKusick